Andy Stanley Removes Shame from Homosexual Sin

Will SandersChristianity71 Comments

As a Christian man, I struggle with sin; “Struggle” being the key word. The apostle Paul spoke of the ongoing battle that is a part of every Christian’s life. We can draw comfort from his words, knowing that our experience is not unusual— that we are not failing as Christians because we are engaged in a fight.

I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. (Romans 7:21-23 NASB)

This struggle can sometimes wreak havoc in us mentally, spiritually, and even physically. As a help, we should “lean on” one another. As a man, I find it helpful to talk about my latest sins and temptations with other Christian men. In fact, the bible tells us we should do so in James 5:16, “Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

andy-stanley-why-in-the-worldIn “confessing,” however, it would be oxymoronic to boast of sin or temptations to sin. John MacArthur tells us, “Confession is two things. The word in the Greek is ὁμολογέω (homologeo), to say the same thing. It’s agreeing with God that you sinned, and it’s turning from it. It isn’t asking to be forgiven. It is saying, ‘God, I’ve sinned. I thank You for already forgiving me, and I turn from it.'”

Given his past statements, it is highly doubtful that Pastor Andy Stanley had true confession in mind when he spoke of homosexuality at a recent conference.  From the Christian Post:

“Pastor Andy Stanley has declared that local congregations should be the ‘safest place on the planet for students to talk about anything, including same-sex attraction.'”

What does he mean by “safe”? Safe from what? I am unaware of any Christian churches causing physical harm to their homosexual youth. However, I do believe Pastor Stanley is at risk of causing them the worst possible spiritual harm. He goes on with his vision for churches:

“We just need to decide, regardless of what you think about this topic— no more students are going to feel like they have to leave the local church because they’re same-sex attracted or because they’re gay. That ends with us.”

Is that because they are not going to be told that homosexuality is a sin? It certainly sounds as though Pastor Stanley is making the same error as many “seeker-sensitive” churches: trying to be attractive to people at the expense of the true Gospel.

Imagine a pastor saying something similar about thieves, “Our church should be the safest place to talk about anything, including stealing. No more thieves are going to feel like they have to leave our church because they’re shoplifters or because they’re robbers. That ends with us.”

Such a thought is absurd, but absurdity is what we’re dealing with in removing shame from sin. Shame is a good thing, if such shame is about that which offends God. Paul said while admonishing the Corinthians in his first letter, chapter 15 verse 34, “Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

050112_1351_AndyStanley15

Image Courtesy: SolaSisters.com

The prophet Isaiah spoke of those who had no shame about their sin in Isaiah 3:9, “The expression of their faces bears witness against them, And they display their sin like Sodom; They do not even conceal it. Woe to them! For they have brought evil on themselves.

When Simon Peter was confronted with the divinity of Christ in Luke 5:8, he felt none other than shame about his own sinfulness, “But when Simon Peter saw that, he fell down at Jesus’ feet, saying, “Go away from me Lord, for I am a sinful man!

The Christian Post article continues:

“During his remarks, Stanley also introduced a plan for churches to ‘take a break’ from the culture wars for a year and change the nation through internal example.

‘If all the Christians for just one year… would quit looking at porn… would quit smoking weed, would quit having premarital sex, would quit committing adultery, would pay their taxes and every church just foster one kid; in one year our nation would feel different,’ said Stanley.”

Any so-called Christian living in unrepentant sin should rightly have their salvation called into question. The problem is, I don’t know of any Christian that unrepentantly views pornography… or smokes marijuana… or has extra-marital sex. I don’t hear them boast of how they want to continue in their sin and still be considered Christians. Homosexual “Christians”, on the other hand, demand to not only be accepted, but applauded and celebrated in their sin.

Pastor Andy Stanley does not call homosexuality a sin. Now, it seems, he feels compelled to call other churches to stop preaching the whole counsel of God. He’s bought the lie that shame is always and everywhere something to be avoided. Again, Godly shame is always a good thing. It is the vilification of shame that should be, well, shameful.

“Were they ashamed because of the abomination they have done?
They were not even ashamed at all;
They did not even know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time that I punish them,
They shall be cast down,” says the Lord. (Jeremiah 6:15)

Guest Author
Will Sanders

Will Sanders

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Will is a reformed baptist from central Texas who cares deeply for the Church. He looks to educate those in American Evangelicalism of the growing attacks on the faith.


71 Comments on “Andy Stanley Removes Shame from Homosexual Sin”

    1. Let’s see, if I was going to play this game, I might write something like…

      “Jennifer Bales needs to repent, or stop calling herself a Christian in online forums. Just my opinion”.

      But since 1) I don’t know Jennifer Bales; 2) I’ve only got a little bit to go on with her single comment; and 3) I need to realize that she’s simply believing slander and gossip peddled as “loving” “truth”, I should probably give her the benefit of the doubt that, if she actually knew the truth, and if she actually talked to Pastor Stanley about any concerns, that she would probably not make such rash comments.

    2. Your opinion is judgemental and ignorant… Find out first who Andy is and stands for before listening to slander and malicious gossip from someone who instead of confronting Andy in love and directly as a brother in Christ should, wastes his time and effort trying to bring someone down who he doesn’t know… Will Sanders own words… “Given his past statements, it is highly doubtful that Pastor Andy Stanley had true confession in mind when he spoke of homosexuality at a recent conference”… In other words he’s assuming!
      If you’re a true christian , you should know Jesusnever condems but open armed accepts all sinners… You should repent and ask forgiveness for listening to slander, participating in gossip and judging who you do not know! Shame on you!

  1. I hope that he comes to know Christ and sees the sinful things he’s saying and promoting. He’s a pawn for satan and he doesn’t see it or doesn’t care. Either way he’s what the media and homosexual s are yearning for.

    1. Read john 8… Then throw the first stone…if you are so righteous! If you knew or researched what Andy Stanley stands for you would probably cut your tongue out for over zealous judgement… You should be ashamed of your self rightousness! You are why people leave the church! Check your heart and ask God to forgive you and not e you a pawn of Satan!

  2. While homosexuality is a sin, I do believe that it should be safe to talk about it in church. It is better to hear the truth from loving friends, and they shouldn’t feel ashamed that they are struggling with it. We all sin, and church is for sick people, not just straight people.

    1. If we can’t talk about our sin among trusted Christian believers in our church environment, how will we be encouraged and held up in prayer before our loving God? I agree Karlee. Satan wins when we think we have to bear our own burdens. Clearly this is not God’s plan for us.

    1. That would be incorrect… It is not only that they realize it is a sin but that THEY REPENT! Anyone could acknowledge it is a sin… Rather what they do knowing that it is a sin is the question… If someone is not repenting of a sin they know is a sin (and has been brought forth from his fellow brother/sister to as much as the church), then they should not be in the church! (Matthew 18:15-20 is very clear on that)…. Again, the issue is not only realization but beyond that… Do they really mourn of their sin? Do they really want to turn away from their sin? Acknowledgment do not address the 2 prior questions.. Repentance does…

        1. Thank you for your clarification.. The sad part is the post modern church make this aspect ambiguous because they don’t want to address sin and people’s spiritual bankruptcy in the eye of God’s holiness and justice… That is why we need Jesus’s righteous work…

          1. Generalizing is somewhat unloving. I lead a discussion group at one of the churches that Andy pastors and our personal responsibility for sin is brought to bear, is spelled out and I see young people change from “no, it just a mistake” to “I have truly grieved God and have earned death as my penalty”. Andy has a message on Mistake or Sin. Before you condemn …

          2. Generalizing? Aren’t you doing the very thing that you are accusing me of? I think what I post here are very clear and gets to the explicit and implicit.. The implication and as well as the application very clearly and based upon the Word of God… So I ask you where is the generalization that you state? Please show me because if I am in error, I am more than open.. But if you are going to make statements like that, you should show Biblically where I am wrong?

            Do you know what is unloving? Teaching another gospel… That “gospel” that does not save that person from hell… Rebuking and correcting is love in that it purge the dross and make sure your Biblical foundation is sound… So I guess If I am pointing out false theology and rebuking in love to correct a (fellow and professing) brother in Christ to sound BIblical doctrine is so unloving… I guess letting that brother stay in err or in his sin is loving then? Should check Matthew 18 that i keep pointing because rebuking is loving..

            The part that saddens me is that you can’t even see your own statement points out my argument from the get go last year.. If Andy is all about taking personal responsibility for sin, wouldn’t be easier to show from the Word of God what is sinning? So wouldn’t you think he should be the first to explicit advocate that homosexuality is a sin? Isn’t that being direct and straight about it… This is not about demonizing one sin and not the other.. The original author clearly makes that point… So again, if he is so serious about personal responsibility about sin, why omit something that is clear in the Bible? You should ask that question instead of talking about his other sermons.. If I believe murdering is a sin, it should be easy to state that murder is a sin… Andy Stanley just has to state that homosexuality is a sin.. But yet, something that overt and clear is not addressed at all.. So personal responsibility seems to be subjective and not objective don’t you think? So again, who is generalizing when I am making a clear point on the matter that address Stanley’s at best, bad preaching and statement (and at worse, a complete false teaching)?

            If any condemnation is made is the very Word of God… You should read Romans 1 and you should how the Bible outline that not proclaiming it (homosexuality) to be sin is no different from hearty approval in allowing that sin as not sin.. It is like when I used to be a believer in the woman’s right to choose (before I was converted) is really no different from a pro-choice stance… More or less, I am making a hearty approval that abortion is not wrong then… I think before you call me out as condemning, you should make some discernment because you seem to be off base

        2. Thank you David and Landon, I am struggleing right now with a text i just received from my son who is almost 28 years old, married and has an autistic son/ my grandson. A little background if i may. I have been a born again, spirit filled Christian since my son was 2 years old and he was brought up in an Assembly of God Church but he has never followed God his entire adult life although we have had many heart felt conversations and i have spent every night in prayer for him. He is of the generation where there is no right or wrong type of mentality. He has gay frieds and believes “to each his own” and although he is not gay he and his wife see nothing wrong with it. Now i have always taught him that as Christians God has called us to love everyone. I used to say we could love the sinner but hate the sin. He is having severe marital problems, has talked of suicide in the past etc. Long story short, he just sent me a text with the link to Andy Stanley and he has been up till all hours of the night watching him and he says he is very intrigurd yet he doesnt know why. You and i know why, its the Holy Spirit tugging on his heart. So why am i so comcerned? Well i was watching the video and unfortunately my Spirit is unsettled at best with what he is preaching with regards to sin. Yes we all sin and fall short of the glory of God and yes we all need to repent and turn from our sins. So if its living with someone outside the context of marriage or homosexuality, both are sins and both must be repented of and turned from. I believe and my Pastor believes that we are to love everyone as we are called to do and gay people, just like a woman and a man having sex outside of marriage, are welcome in our church but they will be taught the word of God and they will both be told they are living in sin (at the appropriate time obciously). Here’s my concern (i bet you already know where i am going with this) Although i am thrilled that some sort of teachings of the Love of God and of the Word of God is being watched in his home and is planting a seed or reminder of everything he knew as a child, i am torn what to say to him. This is a huge deal as he has always been so anti-God in his adult life and the fact that dispite this huge theological difference that i know is unscriptural he is hearing the Word of God (all be it bad teaching with regards to sin), Do i keep my mouth shut for now ( i want him to turn to God so badly..its an answer to years of constant prayer) and i dont want to turn him off to this…..Or do i tell him of my concerns? My spirit tells me “to be still and know” and to trust in Him but the mom in me wants to share everything with him. I know i need to pray about this but i am really interested in a male, Christian perspective. Thank you for listening.

          1. Landon

            Pmarie, praise God that it would seem he is drawing your son unto Himself! (John 6:44) This is merely my opinion and you must continue to pray and seek the Lord’s guidance, but I would simply ask questions right now. Ask him what he’s learning, what he thinks about it, and how you may help to clarify any questions he may have.

            It’s no secret my concerns with Stanley and his teachings in certain areas, but I do believe him to be a brother; albeit misguided in areas.

            At the end of the day, we must rest in the Sovereignty of God and that means continuing to trust and pray that your son’s eyes and ears will be opened and receptive. Be there for him, encourage him, answer his questions.

            As you two begin to dialogue more and more, maybe send him some CD’s or links to sermons from solid Bible teachers like MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Art Azurdia, etc. by saying something like, “Hey, I thought you might like this message” or “here’s a pastor I really enjoy, check out some of his stuff.”

            Continue to pray and praise the Lord that your son is seemingly receptive! And take time to LISTEN to him. Let him do the talking.

            Hope that helps.

          2. Landon,
            Thank you very much for your quick response. I appreciate you giving me your opinion on my son. Your words were comforting and reassuring to me. You are truly a man of God. Sometimes as parents, we lose sight of some of the simplest things and after all these years of praying for him to turn back to God, I think I was a bit thrown off when I got his text. Please pray for him, his name is Eric and for his wife Jaime and obviously my autistic grandson Hayden. They are dealing with a lot of worldly issues right now and I know if my son turns back to God like he did when he was a child, God will surely honor that decision and Bless their marriage. I know reconciliation is not only possible but probable…All things are possible in Christ who strengthens me. I keeping thinking about Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. Blessing to you my friend in Christ. May God continue to Bless you and your family.

      1. Repent is to change our mind, sometimes it takes our bodies a while to follow. Truly changing our mind will lead to a changed life but for some the behavior does not immediatley change. Or Paul’s heartfelt struggle with sin is not an honest portrayal for us.

        1. First off, I would state to you that you are treading a very fine line and you should be very careful in how you write.. In your statement, this could not only be viewed as heretical as well as being off the mark.. Let ask you a simple question.. Could you change your nature by your own will? Does not the Bible state that men love darkness over light? Aren’t we sinners because we are sinful by nature…

          Unless you don’t believe in original sin, you should realize that repenting is more than just a change in the mind.. It takes God to change the dead heart of ours into flesh to actually desire righteous and good works, let alone love God..That is what we call sanctification! So our nature to change is not our works but God and the Holy Spirit.. And the determination of that change by God’s grace and has nothing to do with my effort.. We can’t achieve our own righteousness..

          So again, I ask you.. Do you really think repentance is just a change of the mind? If yes, then you are affirming pelagianism, a heresy which the early churches has clearly affirmed it to be..

          Paul struggle with sin is as much as the same struggle with every sinner… So I do not know what is your point?

  3. I don’t agree with that wholly, Karlee. The church is made up of repentant sinners saved by God’s grace thru faith. While we all do sin and fall short. If the sinner is not willing to face their sin and admit that’s what they are then they aren’t seeking after Christ. Absolutely, you are correct in saying that we should be there for those who are struggling with sin, just as many of us do. In today’s seeker church model they have turned sins into mistakes and repentance into you becoming a better you. If a person is struggling with homosexuality then we should be praying and ministering to them, but unfortunately, that’s not what a lot of churches are doing.

    1. Generalizing about “seeker” churches or as we call ourselves “a church for the unchurched”, doesn’t accomplish anything for the Kingdom of God. In our seeker church, sin is called sin. The gospel message is still the gospel message. I would just encourage anyone who generalizes about any Christian organization or pastor or people to be very sure you are right, otherwise we give Satan the victory by causing division. Just a suggestion.

      1. OK, after reading your 4th comment posts, please make some serious Biblical discernment… You are really off the mark… Also, you should consider what you believe before you start making statements that reveals unsound beliefs.. I think you are the one generalizing..

        1. Church for the unchurched is a contradiction… The word church (ekklesia) is an assembly or called-out ones.. Meaning, the one that Christ called out to be part of His body… Again, salvation is done by Christ (not us)… So you can’t have a body of Christ that Christ did not called out.. See the simple logic.. So the church can’t be for the unchurched because they have not been called out (and hence, not a church) .. Does that mean I do not bring a non-believer to my church? Of course not! I bring non-believers but the pulpit is there to show God’s holiness, the judgment that is upon all mankind, and the Good News of Jesus Christ… Are the non-believer part of our church? No.. They can’t until they become members and come to repentance, faith, and believe in Christ’s work and His righteousness.. See the difference?
        2. I have been part of a seeker driven church in my past (and that church shows that it is not about Christ but trying to seek my glory or your leader’s glory.. Not God!) and my conclusion is that it is wrong theologically and uses God’s name in vain… Seeker driven (or purpose driven) church that does nothing but elude that they are Christian but have no substance that is seriously BIblical…
        Let’s look at some websites to make my point:
        https://thenarrowingpath.com/2014/05/16/a-prophetic-warning-about-the-false-gospel-of-the-seeker-friendly-church-movement/#comments (yes, a blog but you should see the video and how you could say that seeker driven church is sound is crazy)
        http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/GTY90/straight-talk-about-the-seeker-church-movement
        http://www.letusreason.org/popteac25.htm

        3. You state a sin is a sin.. But what do you define as sins? Is homosexuality a sin? I could call a sin a sin and then state that murdering is not sin… See, your point does not tell me what sin is (and your theology that repentance is only a change of mind would tell you that you need to read the Bible to see its vast Truth and reality)… So you know.. I believe sin is doing something that miss the point/mark of loving God with all my heart, soul, and mind (Shema) which will include to love my neighbors as myself (which I admit, I fail miserable at times and I repent daily for both because I fail in my sin of commission and omission)… So if God states that homosexuality is a sin, it is a no brainer to call out homosexuality as a sin.. As a sin!
        4. If you don’t preach what Paul taught (which includes Christ and the early churches), then you are teaching a different gospel.. So no, a gospel message is not the same thing as the Gospel… How do you know the difference.. Read the written Word of God (confirmation verses that there are gospels which are false and the true Gospel – Gal 1:8, 2 Corn 11:4)… So you should discern and check if what you believe is the true Gospel.. From what I am reading, I have a lot of concerns…

        Lastly, what makes you so sure you are a Christian? I ask that question every day and my assurance.. I might doubt but as God has sanctified, I see His Spirit doing His work in my life… More trials, more sorrows, love for His Word, joy, and a heart to love (when in the past I did not)…. How my good deeds are like filthy rags… How I can’t fathom a Holy,Holy,Holy God could love a sinful enemy and mocker to have a privilege to be His servant.. Amazing grace that He would do more by making me His children.. Daily repentance and trying to master over my flesh and grow a desire to obey Him..
        How I am clothed in Christ’s righteousness.. That God is faithful to the end to call me His own…

        The beautiful and amazing grace could only be understood with the right understanding and theology of who God is (which then explains who I am as a sinful being) and why Christ did His work on the Christ to save His chosen people.

        1. I appreciated your post – so well thought out and written. If I am not a believer/Christian, then what I need from you is love, acceptance and most importantly the gospel – for it is the power of God to salvation. If I am not a believer, your post has not moved me in that direction.

  4. Will – what you seem to be missing is that Stanley is speaking specifically about “same-sex attraction” (which is not a sin, but a proclivity/temptation to a specific type of sin).

    You wrote: “Imagine a pastor saying something similar about thieves, “Our church should be the safest place to talk about anything, including stealing. No more thieves are going to feel like they have to leave our church because they’re shoplifters or because they’re robbers. That ends with us.””

    This is a straw-man argument, because it is not equivalent to what Pastor Stanley said. It would be more accurate to say “Imagine a pastor saying “Our church should be the safest place to talk about anything, including kleptomaina. No more kleptomaniacs are going to feel like they have to leave our church because they’re often being tempted to steal. That ends with us.” (Note: Kleptomaniacs are psychologically compelled/tempted to steal. If they do not act on that compulsion, they are not thieves, but they are still kleptomaniacs.)

    I would also point out that you also have zero clue how North Point church operates (I’ve had family attend there – including 2012 for “When Gracie met Truthie” – and have friends who still attend there). Their expectations of Christians who are members are different than their expectations for people who are “unchurched”, or who are only attending (but who have not yet decided to accept Christ), including members of the LGBT community. They allow attenders (including non-Christians) to participate in some levels of service (parking cars, greeting people at the doors, etc.), but they only allow members (who must be Christians) to hold positions with teaching/leadership/mentoring responsibility – and you must sign and follow a statement of behavior that includes sexual purity (in marriage – heterosexual is the only type there is – or in single abstention).

    Additionally, Andy is not telling the church to “stop preaching the whole counsel of God” – he is suggesting that the church to take a year (not forever) and deal with the temptations and sins that are far, far more prevalent within the church, rather than the ones that are not.

    In the past several years, he has spoken about and treated same-sex sin and divorce on the same plane of sin – that we, as a church, should not condemn those in the sin, but that we should tell those living in those sins to “go, and sin no more”. Our role is not to condemn the sinner, but it is also not to normalize the sin by making it “ok” (as we, in the American church, have tended to do with divorce).

    All in all, perhaps your time would be better off spent looking in a mirror, rather than pastors you hate at churches you don’t like in cities where you do not live.

    1. Chris, as usual, you are grasping at straws to defend an unbiblical position. You are creating an argument based upon a fallacious interpretation of Stanley is saying. Your use of sophistry in this case is more than obvious, as the basis of what you’re saying has merit, but your point is moot since you misunderstand Stanley’s position.

      You said, “This is a straw-man argument, because it is not equivalent to what Pastor Stanley said,” but that is not true. While it’s true that “same-sex attraction” in and of itself is not sinful, a person identifying themselves as “gay” most certainly is. Stanley says, “no more students are going to feel like they have to leave the local church because they’re same-sex attracted or because they’re gay. That ends with us.” Obviously, since Stanley made it a point to mention both “same-sex attracted,” and “gay,” he acknowledges the difference between the two. Being “gay” means you have come to accept your attraction, and it’s who you consider yourself to be. You can’t be both “gay,” and a Christian.

      Chris, let me be clear, a “gay” person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is an absolute truth, see 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Just because someone has not yet physically engaged in homosexual behavior with someone else does not mean that they have not sinned. Matthew 5:28 says “everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery in their heart.” The point of this verse is that lust is no different than acting on sexual sin, and someone who identifies as “gay” is most certainly committing the sin of “lust.”

      1 Corinthians 6:18 says, “Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.” Mr Lyons, you must flee from your sin, rather than accept it and identify yourself with it. “Coming out,” or “being gay” is not fleeing from your sin… it’s accepting it. Much like identifying yourself as a thief, rather or not you have stolen something or not, is not fleeing from, but accepting. So Will’s argument in no way was a straw-man, as you have suggested.

      You then go on to make the argument that Will has no idea how North Point Church works, since he is unaware of the statement that must be signed in order for Christians to serve at the Church. Again, this point has nothing to do with the article, or the point that Will is making. Congratulations to NPC for holding their service leaders to at least a minimal standard for service, but this changes not the fact that Stanley is consistently weak, and ambiguous on the sin of homosexuality from the pulpit. Will is correct in that Stanley does not condemn homosexual behavior as sinful from the pulpit.

      You say, “In the past several years, he has spoken about and treated same-sex sin and divorce on the same plane of sin – that we, as a church, should not condemn those in the sin, but that we should tell those living in those sins to “go, and sin no more”. Our role is not to condemn the sinner, but it is also not to normalize the sin by making it “ok.”” Will is correct that homosexuals are front and center in the church debate because they are choosing to be. They are demanding acceptance of their sin, while other types of sin, i.e. divorce, are not. You don’t hear divorced people, or drug users going around, crashing services, demanding that they be treated as equal Christians, and that their lifestyle be accepted as normal, and acceptable to God. Chris, how can we tell them to “go, and sin no more,” if we aren’t willing to tell them that they are sinning to begin with?

      Will is also correct that Andy is suggesting the Church “stop preaching the whole counsel of God.” You try to rationalize this by pointing out that Stanley is only making it temporary, for one year, but your argument is a misleading use of casuistry, as intended I’m sure. By Stanley suggesting that the Church stop focusing on the most prevalent sin in our society today, and focus on sins that aren’t prevalent is absolutely suggestive that Church move away from calling sinners to repentance. If we stop calling the majority of sinners to repentance, we are then in effect partaking in their sin, by rationalizing it.

      And your last statement is just lovely, not to mention, typical. While you spend all of your time attacking and attempting to rebuke others, you hypocritically suggest that others do not. You consistently act as though you have a righteous obligation to do unto others as you would not have them do unto others. You somehow seem to think that by dedicating a web site to attacking people who love Jesus Christ, that you are somehow on a moral high ground compared to those whom you attack. Let me ask you a question Chris, have you looked in the mirror? On what authority do you stand for your source of morality and truth? It’s most certainly not Scripture. It’s vain philosophies of men. Empty deceit! Those whom you attack desire nothing more than to see truth propagated throughout the Church, and see damnable errors exposed, so those who are lost can be saved. One cannot be saved through a false Gospel Chris, nor can they be saved through a false Jesus. Yet, you prowl around like a lion, seeking for someone to devour. You constantly go out of your way to try to distract from someone hearing the truth. You won’t allow error to be corrected, as correcting a false doctrine seems to crawl your skin like leprosy. Your like a ravenous wolf, you come in defending the demon, pretending to be the righteous one, pretending to be on moral high ground, but your true intent always comes out. Your sheep’s clothing always comes off with your hateful and snarky personal attacks on the individual in whom you consistently try to attack. You say that nobody listens to them, yet your desire to feed off of their souls gives you this satisfaction.

      Chris, I have a deep desire to see you repent of your sin, and turn to Christ. Your false belief system that this life is more important than your eternal is nothing more than vain philosophy. You are deceived. Christ died on the cross so that you may have eternal life with him. Do you believe that? You must turn from your sin, and turn to him in full faith. Let go of your traditions, trust only in Him.

      “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” – Matthew 7:13-14

      1. “You are creating an argument based upon a fallacious interpretation of what Stanley is saying.”

        No, I happen to know folks at North Point, and I *know* what he’s saying, and that you and your ilk are doing the work of Satan (as usual) by attacking the church, Jeff.

        You wrote: “While it’s true that “same-sex attraction” in and of itself is not sinful, a person identifying themselves as “gay” most certainly is.”

        This is factually incorrect, Jeff. actually, much of the LGBT community conflates both celibate individuals with SSA and non-celibate ones as “gay” (as does the straight community).

        You wrote: “Chris, let me be clear, a “gay” person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

        If people who struggle with sin cannot enter the Kingdom, then the Kingdom will be empty. We’ve elevated this particular sin above so many others that are far more prevalent in the church, that it’s no wonder the world thinks we hate people who struggle with it.

        So, then, let me be clear, Jeff – if a “gay” person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven, then neither can a liar, a hypocrite, an alcoholic, a thief, someone who disrespects their parents, or you, frankly. When sinners come to Christ, the Spirit works within them to convict them and to lead them toward holiness. It’s a process, not an instant, no-fault, change.

        You wrote: “Much like identifying yourself as a thief, whether you have stolen something or not, is not fleeing from, but accepting. So Will’s argument in no way was a straw-man, as you have suggested.”

        Will’s argument is so much a straw man, I can hear the Wizard of Oz being sung in the background. As Tim Keller, John Piper and other Reformed folks you might respect (who knows, you seem to hate most every preacher with more than a dozen followers, so I could be wrong) note, when someone accepts Christ, it is a process, not a light-switch. At the beginning of that process, they recognize that they are a sinner, but the elimination of the sin in their life, through the conviction of the Holy Spirit, is an ongoing process that may take years.

        You asked “Chris, how can we tell them to “go, and sin no more,” if we aren’t willing to tell them that they are sinning to begin with?”

        I don’t think they’re all that unclear on what we believe sin is, and my experience has been that one-on-one discussion and relationship is a better venue for getting down to the nitty-gritty on discussions of sin and holiness. In this particular case, because of our own history, as the Church, if our aim is to make disciples and to see the life of a sinner change, then our best venue is face-to-face, where dialog is possible, and not in monologue to a room full of people who don’t struggle with the particular sin in question.

        You wrote: “By Stanley suggesting that the Church stop focusing on the most prevalent sin in our society today, and focus on sins that aren’t prevalent is absolutely suggestive that Church move away from calling sinners to repentance.”

        Please tell me you’re not joking. “The most prevalent sin in our society today?” Give me a break. Depending on who’s figures you believe, 1-5% of the population deal with Same-Sex Attraction. Nearly all of our society is guilty of materialism, murder, idolatry of multiple forms, hatred, envy, and gluttony. When we’re talking about “the most prevalent sins of our society”, homosexual practice probably won’t crack the Top 100. Are those who practice it lopsidedly vocal about it? Yes. Has the church of my generation been lopsidedly vocal against it, when compared to the sins prevalent in the church? Yes.

        You wrote: “If we stop calling the majority of sinners to repentance, we are then in effect partaking in their sin, by rationalizing it.”

        While I don’t completely agree with this (since it seems to be getting the cart before the horse), what Andy’s been pretty consistently saying to his congregation and at conferences is that there are sins that are very prevalent inside the church that we rarely, or only superficially address, and perhaps our time would be best spent telling Christians to stop sinning in those ways than to tell the non-Christian world to stop sinning. (the whole plank/speck thing).

        You wrote “You somehow seem to think that by dedicating a web site to attacking people who love Jesus Christ, that you are somehow on a moral high ground compared to those whom you attack.”

        Are you talking about Landon now? This site, Pulpit & Pen and their ilk are the only sites I know of that attack people who love Jesus Christ. So, it seems to me that Matthew 23 applies quite well.

        You asked: “On what authority do you stand for your source of morality and truth?”

        I’ve not been ordained, nor do I make any claim to ordination to speak for others. However, I’m dealing directly with the source of hatred (this site, or you, or Landon, or Will), rather than just gossiping about Church leaders I hate and am too much of a coward (or too lazy) to check with directly for understanding. It’s far, far easier to talk about someone behind their back, or in third person from the safety of your own website. In my case, if I choose to engage in a discussion, I do so directly (as I am right now with you) instead of as a self-appointed, pansy, faux-watchman. Please.

        You wrote: “Those whom you attack desire nothing more than to see truth propagated throughout the Church, and see damnable errors exposed, so those who are lost can be saved.”

        The folks I’m addressing (directly, not in third-person) couldn’t discern their way out of a paper bag. They see “damnable errors” around every corner, where none exist, and decry “false teachers”, while only demonstrating that they’ve got zero love for the Bride of Christ. In one particular case, one of the writers I’m addressing was given church discipline for divisiveness, and instead of accepting it in humility, turned tail and ran.

        You wrote: “You constantly go out of your way to try to distract from someone hearing the truth.”

        Actually, no – the truth is in the Gospel, which I freely proclaim, but I do step in when I see someone telling lies about other Christians, based on hearsay and uncharitable reading – particularly when I actually know the facts in the matter. There is very little “truth” on this website, whatsoever – just lies and hatred spewed at Christian brothers in the name of a false “love”.

        You wrote “Chris, I have a deep desire to see you repent of your sin, and turn to Christ.”

        Done, and done. I have a number of sins that I deal with, with the help and guidance of the Spirit, but failing to recognize online “Discernment Ministries” like this one, yours and other for the demonic cesspools they are is not one of them.

        You wrote “Your false belief system that this life is more important than your eternal is nothing more than vain philosophy.”

        I believe that we were saved for a purpose – that we were saved by grace through faith, to do the good works God prepared for us to do in the beginning. That we have hope in the life to come is glorious icing on the cake, but it’s not the purpose of our salvation. You may believe that the Gospel is simply a viral marketing campaign for fire insurance, but I’d say the Paul, Jesus and the prophets God sent before them would all disagree with you.

        Grace and peace to you, and may you someday find the way.

        1. I need to ask but one question of you Chris. Do you believe homosexuality is a sin? A simple yes or no will suffice.

          1. It depends on how you define “homosexuality” – this term often conflates temptation (“attraction”) and action (homosexual practice).

            So, I believe that homosexual *attraction* is not a sin, but all sexual *practice* outside of biblical marriage (which is only between a man and a woman) is a sin. This would include homosexual practice.

          2. The attraction is disordered. The temptation itself is not a sin, but the person has an obligation to fight it. The feelings must not be welcome. Just like any other wrong attraction (adultery, pedophilia, incest). You can’t indulge in the attraction willingly, or it does become a sin.

        2. Sexual sins ARE the most prevalent in our society.

          The list includes lust, pornography, masturbation, fornication, sodomy, adultery, divorce, rape, incest, pedophilia, etc.

          1. Greed, gossip, materialism, idolatry, truthfulness, gluttony, blasphemy, etc., etc. are WAY more prevalent. Sexual sins just happen to be easier to point out, and more likely something the person doing the pointing doesn’t have much of an issue with.

    2. Chris attraction is a sin. If a man even looks at another woman with lust in his heart, he has committed adultery.

      1. Actually, you are conflating “lust” with “attraction”, when they are two different things.

        “Attraction” is equivalent to “temptation” (which is not a sin – even Jesus was tempted), whereas “Lust” is a desire to sin that is only thwarted from becoming active sin by lack of opportunity.

        Brant Hansen wrote an excellent article (with some humor tossed in) on this subject a couple of months ago: http://branthansen.com/2015/07/22/does-god-see-me-as-a-heterosexual-and-other-thoughts-on-sexuality/

          1. Burk has it completely wrong here, though, from his equivalency between “desire” and “lust” – because when you look at both the Greek – and its corresponding Hebraic concept, these are not equivalent. [This is not surprising, though, coming from Burk, since he often takes a literalist/simplistic approach that is the most fundamental possible position on an issue of orthopraxy.]

            Burk is correct that Jesus’ tie back to the Torah with “lust” goes to the command not to covet. But that’s where his correctness ends. The concept of coveting something, as opposed to simply desiring it, is the willingness in the heart to *take action* on that desire, were the opportunity available. The difference between “desire” and “lust” is the difference between *temptation* and the willingness of the heart to act on that temptation, were the opportunity available.

            And we know that temptation, itself, is not a sin, because it was experienced by Jesus, and when he had an opportunity available to act on that temptation in the wilderness, he did not do so.

            It is the same way with those whose sexual desire is for the same sex (or both sexes), but who – even if given the chance – would not act upon that temptation. Their heart is not “lusting” for a forbidden partner, it simply desires something that the person understands they cannot have, if they wish to honor Christ.

            To Brant Hansen’s point, heterosexual desire is no more or less sinful than homosexual desire – it all depends on whether the desire has translated to something that would be acted upon. In the Hebraic view of the first century, and prior, sin is an action (or an *intended* action) – and attitudes (like pride) do not *become* sins until they manifest themselves in actions. Jesus does take this a step farther, by saying that if you desire something that would be a sin, and the only thing holding you back is opportunity, then your desire has crossed a line from temptation to sin.

            At root, the danger in Burk’s view (and the way it gets propagated by the Fundamentalist American Christian culture) is that it says to those who do not desire heterosexual relationships, “who you are can never be acceptable to God” – primarily because it buys into the lie that our sexual desires define our identities, and reinforces the impression that we believe that those who are oriented heterosexually are morally superior to those with bisexual or homosexual orientations – when the truth is, we have all fallen, and we are all made perfect through Christ – regardless of the sex we are romantically attracted to.

    3. Actually that is not true that members are held to a biblical standard. Andy has preached several times on 1 Corinthians 5 and will not do church discipline. My husband divorced me unbiblically knowing that the church would not discipline him. I asked Andy twice to do what the Bible says to my member husband. He refused. They even baptized his adulteress without calling her to repentance. I was a member for 6 years.

  5. He is far from his dad Dr. Charles Stanley. Andy is riding down that road of false prophet swiftly!

  6. This guy is right on the mark. If we confess our sins to one another, then this is the role of the church. Why confess your sins, as stated in the New Testament, if you are going to turn around, in the flesh, and condemn that person? Something to think about… Christ, yes Jesus our Lord, my Heavenly Father, never once in 3 years or 4 gospels, preached against homosexuality. Never once. And it is funny how John, ‘the beloved’, laid against him at the table. So if this is so serious, then we need to approach each other in love, listen, share the greef, and pray for these people. Not condemn. That is not biblical. And we need to examine our own sins first, before opening our mouths, and committing our own sins of judging one another. Are you perfect. Tell you what, lets talk about your sins for a while. Where do you want to start? What sin do we talk about first?

    1. Andy Stanley has rarely been on the mark in terms of proper Biblical exegesis or exposition. If anything, he is a wolf in sheep clothing revealed as his heretical teachings are clearer to see…

      First, you should understand that inerrancy (as well as the infallibility and inspiration) of the Word of God… The very Bible that we read is inspired by God.. Meaning, it does not just contain the word of God.. It is the very Word that God spoke.. The Bible is not just a biography from many authors but as much an auto-biography.. If you don’t see eye to eye on this point, then your belief would not only be in question but contradicts what the early church leaders, apostles, and even God Himself would profess to be (2 Tim 3:16 would be something you should consider in mind)… Also, if you want to argue historically, even the Israelites saw the OT as the very Word that God spoke to them.. So why you see the prophets say: “Thus said the Lord”…

      Just because Jesus did not specifically preach about homosexuality does not mean He does not have a stance on homosexuality.. Understanding the Bible as something that was expired to us by God, you should see how Jesus would view homosexuality.. AS A SIN… Also, do you know that God abhors sin? Ever consider the justice and holiness of God? Do you know why Christ came to Earth to save humanity from? He saved us from OUR SIN! So sin is a serious point that God had to send His only begotton Son to atone for our sins..

      Why do I sound harsh.. I want to know you know how harsh the Law is… The Law being holiness does not save us.. It condemns us… Until you understand this aspect, many the church is not to tolerate sin… Now, here is the gospel… If we believe that we are sinful by nature (we are spiritual bankrupt) and confess our sins to Christ.. And by believing in the righteous work of Christ (that he is not only our Savior but our Lord) that having faith in His Work will save us from God’s judgment.. So how do you address salvation to someone going to a church.. By addressing the SIN that is in all of our lives.. That is why church is to rebuke, correct, and grow in righteousness (hence, judgment are being made)…

      Lastly, I am not ashamed to talk about my sinful past.. I am more than willing to share you this prodigal son who cursed and mocked God… So your point is moot…. As for the concept of perfection.. Are you going to say that if someone murders another person, you are going to say silent that murdering is wrong and not address the matter? Even if you murder someone in the past, does that change how murdering is wrong? Being silent because you are not perfect is a poor argument.. What about your rebuttal to Matt 18:15-20 (when someone has done you wrong.. Meaning sin and that done you wrong does not necessarily always mean sin against you but as much as sin in front of you), are you to tell me that since I am not perfect that I should just stay quiet and let that person continue to sin?

      I would ask you to discern because your theology seems off the mark. It fails to address some fundamental in catholic and Biblical doctrines. Also a side note, you should Paul and John in some of the historical writings.. You know how harsh they were to the false teachers that got into the early churches… You should ask if they are to love and just let it be, why do they write so much about false teachers and how to get them out.. Even Jude addresses that.. The author of Hebrew…

      1. “The problem is, I don’t know of any Christian that unrepentantly views pornography… or smokes marijuana… or has extra-marital sex.”

        That’s kind of the point, sir. Of course you wouldn’t know if Christians are doing that, because you are not them. Plus, why would they go around broadcasting their sin??? Not everyone can be taken at face value. You also don’t know if they repent for it or not. If they did, then they’d probably stop : you can’t ‘repentantly sin’ so any sin is done unrepentantly, unless one actually repents and stops.

        “Pastor Andy Stanley has declared that local congregations should be the ‘safest place on the planet for students to talk about anything, including same-sex attraction.’”

        Actually, I kind of agree with that. Pastor Stanley is not saying that it is okay to be homosexual, he’s saying that we, as the body of Christ, should not condemn these teenagers, in fact providing a place for them to talk about these things without being criticized, but also lead them on the right path as well. They shouldn’t have to fear bullying in church because of their sin.

        “During his remarks, Stanley also introduced a plan for churches to ‘take a break’ from the culture wars for a year and change the nation through internal example.

        ‘If all the Christians for just one year… would quit looking at porn… would quit smoking weed, would quit having premarital sex, would quit committing adultery, would pay their taxes and every church just foster one kid; in one year our nation would feel different,’ said Stanley.”

        I do not see what’s wrong with this one either 😐 he’s suggesting a better way of living, to make our country a happier place, so it rally has nothing to do with the issue you’re having with him.

        “Any so-called Christian living in unrepentant sin should rightly have their salvation called into question.”

        May I call your salvation into question, Mr. So-called Christian?

        Matthew 7:1-5 (NKJV) “Judge not, that you not be judged. For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck in your eye’; And look, a plank in your own eye? Hypocrite! first remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

        So really, churches SHOULD be accepting and understanding to those that are homosexual, just like the church accepted and took you in when you were naught but a sinner. Yes, the church should explain why it is wrong, but not judge them for it, and try to steer them correctly. We can only judge somebody when we are sinless, and the only one who is sinless is Jesus, who may I remind you, sat with sinners and drank with tax collectors and prostitutes. He did not condemn them, he came to save them, and you should too.

  7. The great falling away! Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

  8. There are some things I want to say:

    “The problem is, I don’t know of any Christian that unrepentantly views pornography… or smokes marijuana… or has extra-marital sex.”

    That’s kind of the point, sir. Of course you wouldn’t know if Christians are doing that, because you are not them. Plus, why would they go around broadcasting their sin??? Not everyone can be taken at face value. You also don’t know if they repent for it or not. If they did, then they’d probably stop : you can’t ‘repentantly sin’ so any sin is done unrepentantly, unless one actually repents and stops.

    “Pastor Andy Stanley has declared that local congregations should be the ‘safest place on the planet for students to talk about anything, including same-sex attraction.’”

    Actually, I kind of agree with that. Pastor Stanley is not saying that it is okay to be homosexual, he’s saying that we, as the body of Christ, should not condemn these teenagers, in fact providing a place for them to talk about these things without being criticized, but also lead them on the right path as well. They shouldn’t have to fear bullying in church because of their sin.

    “During his remarks, Stanley also introduced a plan for churches to ‘take a break’ from the culture wars for a year and change the nation through internal example.

    ‘If all the Christians for just one year… would quit looking at porn… would quit smoking weed, would quit having premarital sex, would quit committing adultery, would pay their taxes and every church just foster one kid; in one year our nation would feel different,’ said Stanley.”

    I do not see what’s wrong with this one either 😐 he’s suggesting a better way of living, to make our country a happier place, so it rally has nothing to do with the issue you’re having with him.

    “Any so-called Christian living in unrepentant sin should rightly have their salvation called into question.”

    May I call your salvation into question, Mr. So-called Christian?

    Matthew 7:1-5 (NKJV) “Judge not, that you not be judged. For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck in your eye’; And look, a plank in your own eye? Hypocrite! first remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

    So really, churches SHOULD be accepting and understanding to those that are homosexual, just like the church accepted and took you in when you were naught but a sinner. Yes, the church should explain why it is wrong, but not judge them for it, and try to steer them correctly. We can only judge somebody when we are sinless, and the only one who is sinless is Jesus, who may I remind you, sat with sinners and drank with tax collectors and prostitutes. He did not condemn them, he came to save them, and you should too.

    1. Though you make some points that I would concur, your overall point seems to miss the whole point.. I would agree that God is the ultimate judge but you seem to forget how people are judged.. It is by the Law. The Law already condemns us.. Therefore, when I tell someone that homosexuality is a sin is not a judgment by me. The verdict is already out and clearly stated.. The Law already condemns and convicts us.. Just because I bring up what the Law (that we are all sinners) states, does not mean I am making an ultimate judgment.. It is called discernment (and yes, I understand discernment requires some judgment call but that does not equate condemnation).. It is like I telling you murdering someone is wrong and a crime by our civil laws (and we could state moral laws if we are both Christians).. Are you telling me that I am being the ultimate judge because I state what is clearly stated by the law? This is where your statement seems to miss the point..

      Also, Christians are to judge fellow Christians (or those who profess to be one).. Again, this is called discernment.. Your point of Matthew 7:1-5 is the most common point that “we are not to judge” but you seem to miss the whole point of verse 5… As you quoted: “You hypocrite, first remove the plank from your own eye, and THEN you will see clearly to REMOVE the speck from your brother’s eye”.. If we are not to judge, then you would not think the second half of that verse would not be there.. Why is it there? Obviously, making discernment (or you call judgment) is necessary.. Also, you seem to miss teaching of Jesus in later passage that shows clearly that we are to discern.. Matthew 7:15-16, 20 in reference to false teachers in the church… Are you telling me that we should just not judge while they proclaim a different gospel (you could check Paul’s letters about the Judaizers)… Did you not read Hebrew or Jude that talk about getting the false teacher out because they will corrupt the church?

      At the end, we are to show love and exhort fellow brothers and sisters in Christ… But for someone to be in the body of Christ has to acknowledge and proclaim REPENTANCE! And their fruits are very clear if they do have repentant heart (because their theology would be sound or not and actions will follow through… Hence, justification by faith leads to sanctification).. Also, Jesus coming to Earth was to proclaim REPENTANCE AND FORGIVENESS OF SIN! Repentance is key.. So yes, I concur that we should be loving to those who struggle with their sins.. But are not to tolerate people who do not have a repentant heart because they are stating that they don’t need forgiveness or they don’t agree with God’s Holy Law that state it is a sin! Because they choose not to accept what is clear in the Biblical doctrine, we are to expel them out (Check Matthew 18:15-20).. I would kindly ask you to discern because it seems to contradict sound Biblical theology and what Christ clearly taught..

      1. But….Pastor Stanley never said homosexuality was or was not a sin. Heck, the blog post even states it!

        “Pastor Andy Stanley does not call homosexuality a sin.”

        I’d think if he said that homosexuality wasn’t a sin, the blogger would’ve said it. (of course, I’m assuming based off of this blog post, which doesn’t give enough information rather than its own opinions ) But no, all that’s there is he never says homosexuality is a sin. Because it is. This dispute isn’t about whether homosexuality is a sin or not, because once again, IT IS. It’s about what we, as people of christ, should do about it.

        I never said you cannot discern, because as you’ve pointed out, the Bible does say to. But to discern is to perceive or recognize something, to acknowledge the fact that they are sinning. You are correct in saying that homosexuality is a sin, because that is discerning. To judge, however, is to form an opinion or conclusion about them. You cannot kick people out of the church saying they are not holy enough BECAUSE they sin. (with being not holy enough as the judgement.) See the difference? Judging is God’s duty, Discerning is ours.

        I’ll quote this again, “You hypocrite, first remove the plank from your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye” the only way for you to successfully stop others from sinning is to stop sinning yourself, and instead of condemning them, helping them remove that speck.

        Once more, discerning is not judging. DISCERNING IS NOT JUDGING. Understanding that homosexuality is a sin, does not mean you should boot people out of the church (I know I’m being redundant, my apologies). If you experience same-sex attraction (or other forms of sin, like stealing, as pointed out by the blogger) the church should be a safe place for you to talk about it and receive guidance away from it. Yes, you should feel shame, because what you’re experiencing is the enemy trying to control you. But you shouldn’t be afraid to hide your face from the church because you think everyone will hate you. You should trust them enough to talk about it and get help!!!

        And…it was never said that the people who talked about their sin wouldn’t confess. That was a JUDGEMENT by the blogger. Under the right guidance, and with fellow believers, hey can overcome that sin. You can’t expect everyone who sins to leave the church, repent, and THEN come back. The church is for repentance.

        Looking back on it, and reading ALL the facts from the conference, I will not deny that Pastor Stanley is losing his way. As for the ideas presented in this blogpost (church being a safe place to confess and repent sin) I agree with. I’m sorry for any misconceptions I’ve caused.

    2. Mr. Insert-your-name-here, you are spot on. Unfortunately, you’ve landed in a pit of hyper-judgmentalism and gossip, where truth no longer matters, but only innuendo and uncharitable characterization of pastors they don’t like.

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  13. As I’ve read all the comments/debates going back & forth here, I want to say something, as one who has been dealing with the homosexual struggle for years. First, I love the Lord & have a deep desire to have Jesus remove this sin from my life. I believe every word of the Bible as truth and find no need in trying to distort, change, or manipulate the word of God to fit my sin. I have been around many homosexuals who try to distort what God says, and make it seem like God approves of the lifestyle. I am very clear that man with man and woman with woman, is not God’s original design/creation for us. I have been at the point several times where I have been severely depressed, suicidal, & just lost as to why God won’t remove this sin from my life. I study the word of God, was a regular church member and have sought the Lord with my whole heart. In saying this, I do believe that the Lord loves me and is working in my life. I do believe that Jesus hears my cry and will help me. I just get frustrated at times because it has been so long of a struggle and I truly desire to live a life pleasing to the Lord.

    Here is the problem I have faced with other Christians/Believers. I believe that God wants us to fully rely on His power to change, but I also believe that as fellow brothers & sisters in Christ, we are to help one another. I used to go to a Baptist church (New Hope Missionary Baptist Church), where I was a member for years. I decided to have a talk with my pastor one day and bring my sin to the light. When I confessed my homosexual sin to my pastor, he was receptive and said that he would be my accountability partner and would have regular meetings with me. as a means to help me with my struggle. After that meeting, my pastor reached out to me only one time and he never fulfilled his promise to be my accountability partner. I was devastated because I know that when two or three gather together in the Lord’s name, it shall be done. My trust in Christians and the church slightly diminished at that time in my life.

    Moving forward, and I’m speaking of more recent times. I wanted to go back to church and I desired Christian fellowship again. So, I started going to another church (Grace Reformed Church), which I liked a lot and felt really filled with the word of God. I decided to disclose my struggle with the pastor. At this time, I was also facing homelessness, as my health & fitness business was not doing well and I had nothing left. I also want to state the my desire has always been to use my gift/ministry of health & fitness in the church. I see so many churches who have unfit & unhealthy members. We can’t just spiritually work on our minds & soul and neglect the body (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). Anyway, my pastor met with me on several occasions and truly did fulfill the commitment as an accountability partner. I was doing well and repenting from homosexual sin. But, I did disclose to my pastor and other church members that I was facing homelessness, and no one reached out to help me. But, twice so far, I have had two people help me and offer me a place to stay…the ironic thing is they are both homosexual men. The Church/Christians/Fellow Believers offered me no help. I am temporarily staying with one now, but the Church seemed to have no problem seeing me homeless. I’m really confused about this because 1 John 3:17 says “But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?”

    How can gay men & women who desire to live a life according to God’s will & turn to the church for help, and in turn get rejected, expect to put their trust in the church. What these two churches did to me does NOT line up with the word of God. I am presently enrolled in an online Christian course called “Setting Captives Free”, to help me with homosexual sin. I want/need to be removed from living with another homosexual, because the holy lifestyle I desire and the unrepentant sin he desires are not equally yoked.

    My whole point in writing this post was to say that as Christians, we can’t continue to condemn people with the bible and at the same time not be willing to help them.

    Philippians 2:4 “Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.”

    Matthew 25:35-40 “For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.”

    1. Landon

      First and foremost, I’m proud of you, brother. Your determination and faithfulness to the Word of God is admirable and courageous. I think a very clear distinction must be made which is that same-sex attraction is no different than my battle with lust, or lying, or any other number of things we all deal with on a daily basis. It is sad that you did not get the support that someone living in repentance of sin deserves.

      I thank you for taking time to post and share your story. I do think we are living in an age where many large churches and their pastors are moving towards affirming homosexual sin but, in our zeal to speak the truth against that issue, we must remember folks such as yourself who battle daily but are living lives of repentance.

      I pray that you find a local church who is able to rightly distinguish between someone battling same-sex attraction and someone living in unrepentant homosexual sin.

      God bless, brother.

    2. I’m so sorry about both experiences that you had with those churches. It’s hard to get past hurt, when it comes from the place that you should never be hurt. But church members are broken people, just as we all are. Sometimes they hear us with their ears, and not with their hearts. I hope since you posted this so long ago, that you are doing better now.

  14. Here is a poem I wrote a decade ago;

    WHAT MARRIAGE IS

    A crucial query begging answer is not what marriage is.
    How can we presume to vote on a precept that is His?

    Not matters what we think or say,
    We are called to just obey.

    There is a term I find perplexing, what does “gay” Christian mean?
    An oxymoron is what I call it, why to some is this unseen?

    Meaning lively and vivacious, “gay” was once a lovely word.
    Why a church for homosexuals, does that not sound absurd?

    A congregation set apart to justify themselves, are there those for other sins?
    Loving groups and counseling help us, we all need God-in-skin.

    Christ’s disciples love all sinners, but hate the sins that they commit.
    Against the only One infallible, all sin and from Him do split.

    Our gracious, heavenly Father extends compassion and mercy.
    Accepting us where we are, expecting change through His liberty.

  15. Interesting that Andy preached a message called Judgment Call on 1 Corinthians 5 where he said it was not his job to do church discipline. He has also preached that “weeping and gnashing of teeth” does not mean hell. He was preaching through Acts but skipped chapter 5. He believes in cheap grace, easy believism and Jude 4–being in the church and using the grace of Jesus Christ as a license to sin.Thank you for your thorough and biblically correct answer. Repent was the first command.

  16. Paul Chung, I appreciate your openness and vulnerability. I agree with you in that we need to help one another. If the church doesn’t who will. It gives satan opportunity to get in there and plant doubt which leads to questioning God which eventually leads to sin. Christians want the benefit of seeing people saved and repented of sins but are not willing to do the work to help them get there like in the verses of the four friends carrying the paralytic to Jesus by putting in the work to get him well. Sometimes we need to borrow other peoples faith till we get our own faith strong enough to overcome rooted sin. I believe we are our brother’s keeper. I will pray for you brother and keep fighting the good fight.

  17. I’m a divorced woman. I struggle with wanting to have sex with men outside of marriage.
    I’m constantly tempted to commit fornication.
    I think about it so much I crave it so much.
    But since I know it’s a sin I don’t do it.
    I don’t do it simply because God tells me not to do it.
    I don’t really struggle with it it’s just there all the time
    I guess it could be a struggle because it’s a Temptation.
    I don’t expect God to ever remove it or change me.
    But his grace is sufficient.
    Paul had a thorn in the flesh.
    He prayed three times for God to remove it.
    God told him my grace is sufficient for thee.
    And his grace is sufficient for all of us who struggle with temptation.
    Or with whatever comes against us
    God never promised to remove anything.
    But he did promise His
    I really don’t care what anybody says I only care about God said in the Bible
    And he said that no temptation comes to us except what we are able to bear.
    Grace.

  18. Andy Stanley is an hireling.
    He’s in it for the money that’s his support for life Being a fake pastor.
    There are many more like him.
    Only those called to the five-fold ministry are the true Called of God and anointed.
    But many false prophets are gone out into the world and Andy Stanley is one of them.
    Sad but true.
    I don’t listen to one thing he has to say
    Only want to hear what the says the Lord.

  19. Have a conversation with Andy before you decide he is apostate. Or anyone else you decide to condemn. Just sayin’

  20. What I think Andy Stanley is saying is that someone who is gay should be able to talk about his struggles with Christians who can point him to Christ to be cleansed from that sin and from all sin. I don’t see that he is saying they should be able to come to church and feel validated in their sin. Some people have been sexually abused and the core of their being has been so damaged that they are confused and have had wrongful sexual relationships. But God loves them and we need to love them too and show them the better, transforming way God has for them and help them find healing, restoration, and forgiveness. All of us need that same transforming power in our lives. It’s true that we wouldn’t tell a thief that stealing is ok and we wouldn’t tell a couple it is ok to have sex outside of marriage, but we still should reach out to them and lead them to Jesus. For that matter, the proud person or the slanderer is welcome at church even while we need to teach against the sins of pride and slander. I think this is the message that Andy is trying to convey and as others have already said, we should talk to him directly before passing such severe judgments and not speculate against him in a defamatory way. The sin of slander is mentioned in the Bible in lists of sins such as adulteryl

  21. I am very glad to belong to a Biblical church, also. ( It took me a long time to find one in these day of false teaching, apostasy, etc. ). That said, it is certain that anyone is welcome to visit our denomination. And we preach, share, and live the Full Cousel of God, which includes church discipline for any member.
    Certainly if Andy Stanley means saved people should be able to discuss their struggles, I agree. If, however, he means that anyone ” practicing sin”- any of the sins listed in Scripture, will not be subject to church discipline ( commanded by Christ, ) then he is wrong, and needs to repent.
    By the way, it really is not a ” culture war, ” as when you get saved as a true believer you understand Count the Cost. The World hated Our Master. He warned true believers we ” we will be hated for His sake. “. However, we do love the lost and still witness regularly. Unfortunately, those who reject the clear commands of Scripture confuse the lost.
    I cannot comment with certainty on Dr. Stanley, since I did not hear his presentation. What I can say is that a ” tradition ” can be either good ( if Biblical ) or sinful ( traditions of the Pharisees. ). True believing Christianity is NOT about traditions, but about repentance and faith in Christ, then obedience to His Holy Word.

  22. Pingback: Behind Enemy Lines - Growing 4 Life

  23. I am appalled that a person who can call themself a christian thinks that he can throw the first stone! In john 8, Jesus tells the woman.. I do not condemn you … There is difference between accepting sin and accepting the sinner… Will Sanders… You should talk to Andy Stanley before making a judgement that can make another believer stray from true faith. A homosexual is a sinner just like you once were and still are.. Just because your sins are not out in the open does not mean you are holy and righteous… Only Jesus makes us righteous through is grace… We continue to be sinners in reality. How cruel would it be if Jesus who knows our plight would turn us away because of our sin… That is not who He is.. It is God who convicts each if us of sin.. A homosexual comes to church a homosexual still.. Only God can change him.. Should we then turn him away because of his struggle with sin.. . then maybe you should leave the church for sinning by spreading malicious rumor and gissip, for judging what you may not entirely understand.
    I’m not judging you.. I’m calling you out! This statement is your own judgement and opinion…”Given his past statements, it is highly doubtful that Pastor Andy Stanley had true confession in mind when he spoke of homosexuality at a recent conference”… So you’re judging by a statement that you interpret any way you want.. You should be ashamed of yourself for gossip and slandering … Who then should we come to in your opinion when we are struggling with a sin.. obviously for you it is not the church! And shame is not something to lord over anyone! Jesus never shamed anyone! He came to this world to save us not condemn us! I don’t personally know Andy Stanley I don’t even go his church.. In fact I’m not homosexual but I am a sinner who has been forgiven by a grace that i don’t deserve… I cannot judge Andy for his views but actually knowing his point of view, his love for Christ and his fervor to reach the unlovable… Brings me to one inclusion… He stands with Christ, desires to call into God those who are struggling with sin and need a place of comfort, understanding and love…. You should learn by his example! I’m eternally grateful that God has put me in a church where ALL people are excepted, loved and taught the love of Christ instead of judging and condemning those they do not know… If you are on the same team, as a Christian, instead of gossiping, judging and slandering a “brother” in Christ through cheap words, you should confront him directly and ask him to explain himself… If you find fault in him then speak to him out of love not go behind his back to talk about something you are not even sure of!

    Disgusted …

  24. We are talking about 2 people who love each other folks. Wake up and point your finger at your self and your own “sin.” I guess you folks are just fine with 2 divorced people remarrying and living in an adultery for the rest of their married life? Did you forget that part of the Bible? Or is it just not convenient to live it ALL out?

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